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How about diving AIR, and doing my DECO with NITROX? That could work. Any idea of dive tables?
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Eqeao - 10/17/2013 6:45 AM 
I see that you’ve done your ’tech nitrox’ cert through TDI. Did you also do your deco procedures at the same time? I think it’s important for people to know where you’re coming from here. If you have the training (which would, I think , require at a minimum ’extended range’ in the TDI world), and are just looking for advice from other experienced tech divers, that’s one thing. If you don’t have the training, then people are going to be rightly cautious. Doing a dive to this depth, off Jersey, is potentially quite risky.
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There was no selection for basic nitrox, that is what I have. I do not have advanced nitrox nor deco from tdi. I just got those books, and along with Six Skills .. Tech Diving book from Steve Lewis, starting to get an understanding of DEEP diving over 150 feet is quite risky .. as you said. And, yes, that is why I was surprised to see such little information on this.
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Eqeao - 10/22/2013 12:52 PM
Cool, it sounds like you have a good start. I’m just finishing my Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures this weekend (if the weather holds), and it’s been quite the journey for me. I would be happy to chat more with you sometime if you like, and pass along what I know, and point you in the direction of some good people for things I don’t know.
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Thanks Eqeao. Wow, you are taking "the" course that sets up DECO diving. Eqeao .... That Is Great. My understanding is that these courses have limits to 150ft. So, divers will need yet additional training for the 180ft dept. I am still confused as to creating a dive plan for 180ft. So far, it appears that double tanks, better if 120 steel, filled to 3440 are desirable, and a staged deco bottle, 40%, which gets switched into divers breathing on ascend at 30 feet or so. I am not looking for perfection, just a standard dive or popular dive scenario. Yesterday, I started looking into a 15 minute bottom time at 180 feet, using 8 minutes for descending, and OVER 30 minutes for ascending and decompression. Dah ... what do I know? Very little. I am just trying to get a handle on this "image." I do not mind making mistakes on paper... and having an experienced person correct me. I am all ears.
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Eqeao - 10/23/2013 7:34 AM
Yeah, the limit to 150’ is really about narcosis. Narcosis and ’deep air’ tend to spur some strong feelings in the community (as to how deep is acceptable, etc). Generally speaking everyone concedes that narcosis does take effect, in most conditions, at 100 greater. At those depths your ability to problem solve starts to decline. This may not be noticeable, but it’s generally accepted that it happens (and there have been multiple studies, etc). Some training agencies (including TDI) feel that with enough training and ’muscle memory’, you can mitigate that risk. Others (like GUE) don’t want to cross that line and teach Trimix for all dives below 100’.
Generally speaking people start doing decompression on a bottle of 100% o2 at 20’. But there are MANY issues with that, not least of which is the increased chance of a tox event if you do it wrong.
Gas management is critical, and a good article about it can be found here:http://www.nwgratefuldiver.com/articles/gas.html
I would also say that for me, on a dive like that, team selection, planning, and communication is key. I want to know that my teammates are on the same page.
For what it’s worth, in our class, we’re only going down to 130’, and the instructor will be on trimix, to mitigate risk.
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Hey Peter,
I’d highly recommend you take the courses needed to do the type of diving you plan to do, then gradually gain the experience needed for deep diving. Too many times I’ve seen divers die usually due to lack of training and experience.
Be safe,
Barry
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Eqeao - 10/24/2013 6:30 AM
Barry is 100% Correct there. Training and experience (in that order) first.
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And, I have been reading the book by Steve Lewis. Awesome.
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Thank you > Divinleo :)
Wow, that is some long dive!!! How long have you been diving? Was this work related? What (inspiration) got you past the 130ft mark? What great team you must have!!! Wow. I bow my head to you!!
I have been past 120ft depth only a few times. And, it seems that my gear and skill level must be updated. Really updated !!! Thanks for the dive plan.
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Hey Divingleo, Just out of curiosity how many liters of gas did you bring for that dive?
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Page 152 of "Six skills and other discussions," by Steve Lewis, has a plan for 200 feet, using the 18/45 trimix. I found on my radar this after reading divingleo’s dive plan, above. Now, I have a starting point. I will not make it to 165 m, not in my lifetime. If I was only a bit younger, say 20 years younger. Interestingly, the book, "Deeper Into Diving," by John Lippmann, 1992, displays Navy tables, with deco using air. Trimix must have started later?
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Trimix was around a bit earlier.
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>caves4me: Yes, trimix was around eariler. Thanks.
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It seems logical now, that the steps to follow for understanding the mechanics behind creating a dive plan for 180ft DEEP starts with (1) calculating how much psi required at depth 180ft for, say 10 minutes, using SAC or RMV (2) descending time and psi required, using ATA at depth (3) ascending time and psi required, using staged deco stop times, (4) temperature at depth, and proper thermal protection needed, using temp, current, and activity SAC or RMV (5) tank size needed, the need for double tanks, bc, sling bottles, tanks with various MIX, dive computers that can track changes to MIX (6) and the mixture of gas required (because 180ft is DEEP,) at different levels (stage bottles.)
I have put together a rough idea in my mind, on the above. I now feel comfortable as to the SCOPE of the task. Furthermore, I am now sure this DEEP dive is absolutely not a JOKE dive. Not sure if I can meet the physical challenges.
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Add onto above ... (7) dry suit (8) gear in support of a deep dive
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Hey Pete,
Gear is a small part of it, one of my British friend’s stated about recent double fatality at Eagles Nest, ’all the gear but no idea’. That pretty sums it up for those fatalities. Training and experience really helps you get a good perspective on what you want to do.
Barry
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Some additional points to remember
(1) if you are lucky enough to have a DIVE SHOP that cares for your safety, then please listen to their warning signs about planning future dives that is outside your scope of abilities. I am lucky to have such luck. Example: 2011 "Peter, you need more dive experience before you venture out to Outer Banks, North Carolina, to dive 120 feet. You only have 10 dives. Maybe next year." And, they were right. Even today, with 150 dives, I continue to try to be careful about making dives within my scope of learning.
(2) if you are lucky enough to feel the need for safety before any DEEP DIVES, then my BET is you will be around to dive another day, no matter. And, for that "character" you possess, you can be my buddy. I would rather dive with a safety minded person than a thrill seeker.
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Please read gregs forum topic on sac rates. I have posted some comments, which basically asks for 20 to 40 examples of dive plans that are safe vs risky.
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I’m at the fork in the road in buying doubles or sidemounts.
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Hi Peter, All I can say is stick to what you are familiar with. I personally prefer sidemount over backmount but backmount does have it’s advantages too, especially if you’re prone to being seasick like me. I’d rather do backmount because it’s a lot simpler and faster for me to get into the water. I really can’t get into the zone with sidemount offshore, some people can easily use sidemount offshore, I can’t.
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Hi Caves4Me ... thanks for the heads-up. Your thoughts are welcome. I hope to take both paths at the fork in the road. Side Mounts and Doubles (with Manifold.) Both are in theory and concept of use, within my reach. I just do not have any experience in either. So, I am reading the book "Staying Alive" by Steve Lewis. Wow, he has been hinting ... yes, hinting at the HOLLIS sms75 (side mount system.)
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Hi Peter, I’ve seen a few Hollis SMS 75, they seem to be a nice rig. Just remember no one sidemount rig does it all, their are a few that come close and possibly the Hollis SMS 75 is one of them. It all boils down to what you intend to do with your sidemount rig. I have several different rigs that I use. If I’m going in tight stuff then I use a rig designed for that purpose. If I’m hauling a lot of stages then I use a rig that has lots of lift. So for the type of diving you plan to do you should look at all the variables to find a rig that comes close to your diving needs.
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Thanks caves4me for the heads up on the SMS75 by Hollis. I have got to get some practice. Right now, my journey with side mounts cannot begin, since I must first get some training. So, I am wanting to make plans to travel from NJ down to FL and take some lessons. I got the SMS100 dual bladder with the regulators as a kit. Yes, I bought the side mounts. Yes, they do no good on the shelf. I better get going on using this.
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Hi Peter, SMS 100 dual bladder is a good technical diving platform. I was just talking to a backmounter on FB, he’s headed towards sidemount for the comfort and redundancy. Plus he wants to do more technical diving without the pain of lugging a set of doubles around. Training does save a lot of time, plus it’s the safest way to understand what sidemount is all about. Let me know when you’re headed this way.
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I am thinking to ADD to my tech gear (above) —> Dive Computer with multiple transmitters (2) —- Hollis TX-1, so that I can execute multi-gas dives for my advanced nitrox and basic decompression procedures and keep track of the performance via a DC log.
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My buddy has been using the Shearwater Petrel, heck of a nice computer!
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thanks caves4me, and YES, the Petrel / Petrel 2 are the "best in class."
yet, for my needs, the dual transmitters on the Hollis TX-1 seems very interesting. of course, I need to check/compare the tissue algorithms against my current dive computer, to see that my alerts, etc. continue in same margins. God forbid the Petrel thinks there is an expert on board !!!
what will be an advantage for my needs, because of my dependence on alarms, is that possibly the TX-1 can prompt me with NOISES, BELLS and WHISTLES blasting as I ascend, reminding me to switch gases.
you guessed it, I stand with my head is bowed to those to have the Petrel / Petrel 2 and can get adjusted to its expert technology super quickly. as for me, "holding hands" with my next dive computer is not a bad idea.
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What ever works for you Peter, that’s what it’s all about. I’ve never been a big fan of transmitters mostly because of the type of diving I do, things have a tendency to break. Just remember a computer is just a tool, people still get bent on high end computers.
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wow !! how true, caves4me !! well, today I was reading the last few pages in Deco Procedures, and the V-Planner software discussion, in that TDI book. interesting. anyway, my mind is NOT set on the hollis and the dual transmitters. just that my needs maybe more in line with the transmitter, so that I can also add the deco bottle into the equation. and yes, caves4me, there have been stories of faulty/broken by hitting transmitters.
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also interesting was that divingleo #402 was noting the gas mix details that now look so familiar to V-planner calculate results. he was going DEEP to 65 meters, 214 feet !!! my journey to understanding a TRIMIX 7/75 are about two years away. Maybe even longer than that. but wow!!! 214 feet !!!
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Hey Peter, Are you taking advance nitrox and deco procedures? Having a computer with is transmitter is really a personal choice. I use a computer as a tool, it doesn’t dictate my dive profile it just reaffirms what I’m doing is right on schedule. My buddy took a tri-mix course recently, there was a lot of surface planning of what gases to use for a particular dive and a lot information that was put into his wet notes. His computer than was set for the dive. Here’s his some of his training: youtube.com/watch?v=5W5LZ1vJl08
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ok, I find that a growing number of scuba divers start at different places, and end at the Petrel by Shearwater. Hmmm....
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Yeah, the Petrel is a pretty good computer. A few months ago a friend of mine took a mild hit, I was monitoring his vitals and I grabbed his computers to see his profile and record the data, of course one of his computers was a Shearwater Petrel, the other computer well I could never figure out, so I didn’t even bother trying. Getting the information from the Petrel was so easy, I was amazed by how easy it was to extract the information. It convinced my next computer will be a Petrel. As for my buddy’s hit, he was diving very conservatively, both his computers had cleared and were set to the highest conservative setting. He had what we call a undeserved hit, I personally think it may have been linked to lack of proper rest, sometimes something so simple can be the root case, I’m sold on the Petrel!
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I have been reading the manuals of both tech dive computers, the Hollis TX1 and the Petrel2.
It appears the Petrel2 is hands down, the best tech dc for scuba divers. For me, it is a required GIVEN if I am going to go deeper than 130 feet, and doing serious DECO diving. Yet, my interpretation is that the Petrel2 serves the high end experienced tech scuba diver. You really have to know the data, the gauge monitoring, and how to set the parameters. For me, it may take two years to reach the BASIC PASSING diver on the Petrel2. Yes, it is that good.
The V-planner is also a required GIVEN. ( I am now connecting the dots. )
Folks, if you are reading this, run around the block, maybe 5 miles or so, in a circle. When you arrive back to this spot, nothing will have changed. You need the Petrel2 and the V-planner. Hands down.
Personally, the Hollis TX1 seems reasonable way to bridge the gap between recreational diver and technical diver, because the Hollis has ALARMS for the beginner tech diver. This bridge is needed, because the transition from a recreational diver into technical diving requires this awareness. Yes, I understand that when I take the course, my objective is to ready my gauges. But, my estimates says that at 130 feet, in a cold or current water environment, my brain will only work at 50%.
So, the first step is BEGINNER tech diver, and practice with the TX1 as an INSTRUCTOR. And, then continue onto the Petrel2 as a "want-a-be" MODERATE to ADVANCED tech diver. Please forgive me, I am so wanting to get down on my hands and knees and say, keep me focused on this:
Who am I, in the shadows of great marine life, such as turtles, sea rays, and tarpons? I am just a visitor with expectations to learn about the life of those wonderful fishes and shipwrecks that make presence on the ocean floor. Let me be humbled at your presence. Let me be aware that I am just a student.
So, get the Petrel2, and may the force be with you!! Since all divers are required to have redundancy, right now, my thought is BOTH the Petrel2 and the Hollis TX1. Oh my, what a big step. Ebay !!!!
The Hollis TX1 has "hold my hands, please" functionality. caves4me, divingleo, eqeao, Oh my, my, my, I need to focus on being humble and aware that I am a student. Now, tomorrow, and for the next few years, my Confidence Level is as not important as keeping my student CAP on. I am starting as a beginner tech diver. That awareness is necessary to grasp.
Thank you caves4me, divingleo, eqeao, dive buddy!!!
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clarification, the TX1 dive computer can be used as if it were a teaching aid for a beginner tech diver, like having an instruction on each and every dive. just in case your ego gets the better of you !!!
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My Petrel buddy says, "what"! Peter, I wouldn’t depend on having a computer as my teaching aid or consider it as an instructor, it’s just a tool. The most important computer you have is your brain, relying on a computer solely is a dangerous practice. Even my Petrel friends have back ups, they don’t depend on one source of information.
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You are right on point, caves4me. 95% is dependent on training, experience, awareness. It is that last 5% for which remains. After the courses are over, after the dust has settled. There is always a chance the computer catches something for which I must take notice. An alarm which says ... something.
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Peter, if you want to have a computer with alarm that’s fine, just don’t become over dependent on it. Obviously when you take your tri-mix course you’ll realize that a computer is just a tool. Advanced diving requires advanced planning and preparation. Good luck an your endeavors!
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Contacted the California based sales office of Hollis, and talked about the TX1. They had some measures for me as to the font size of the gauge display. So, my next step is to visit a store that has the TX1 on display. I need to imagine being underwater, with my gloves on, and attempting to push the buttons on the dive computer, changing from one gas to another. If the display is too small, or the buttons too difficult to operate, the dc becomes a bit of a challenge. Really !!! Hence, the Petrel2 is starting to stand out as the clear favorite.
In review,
purchased my Hollis SMS 100 side mount system with Reg Kit in 2014. In the closet now.
reviewed TDI texts and various articles/books on Advanced Nitrox and Decompression in 2014.
started to research in to Mixed Gas computer such as Hollis TX1 and Petrel2 for technical diving, 2015.
Oh boy, has it been slow.
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